The XV Concept and the Engine Subaru Needs

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 03/01/2016 at 12:04 • Filed to: Subaru, Rant, How about it?

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Photo credit Car & Driver

This is the XV concept, or “looks bin” to pull from for the next XV. Basically, its much wider, shorter and a little longer and aside from looking like a squashed concept version of the current RAV4 its a smart update to one of Subaru’s best selling little hatches. That being said, I think Subaru needs to be really careful here with the XV not to grow it up too much, the people who love the XV love that its the cheapest way to buy and run an AWD adventure machine and messing with that formula too much isn’t going to do sales the wonders that Subaru might think.

The XV buyer doesn’t need more car, more features, more style or more wheel (what are those...19's?) No, do you know what the XV really needs? It needs a new engine.

There are really only 2 complaints about the XV from loyal buyers:

1. Slow

2. Not that great of mileage for how slow it is. Did I mention slow?

I mean sure more space is nice and styling is important too but its the engine that’s the universal letdown in the current XV.

Mazda ran into this problem with the CX3 with its launch on the single available 2.0 skyactive engine...that was immediately panned as being “okay but not great” in both power and economy departments. Mazda wisely ponied up and brought out a 2.5 that solved both issues and sales were improved. The trouble is that even light cars are getting heavy and they need the additional torque of a larger engine to get things moving.

Subaru could do the same thing, swapping out the inadequate FB20b 2.0 L which makes a so-so 148 hp way up at 6000 rpm and 145 lbs-ft or torque at an equally high 4200, and plop in the near identically sized FB25b 2.5 L with an extra 22 hp but more critically 29 more lbs-ft with no weight or packaging penalties. That would be the easy solution. The trouble with that is that it discourages people from looking at legacy based stuff or the forester a little higher up in the range and it also affect Subaru’s CAFE targets...or at least on paper it does.

The smart solution, in my mind, would be a totally new (the US shores) engine for their small cars that would deliver on the power, or more importantly the low end power, fuel economy and differentiate it from the others in the line; its called the FB16DIT.

As you might guess its the same FB engine that’s in there now, only smaller...and with a turbo. Subaru’s LOVE turbos! This little 1.6 puts out a lovely 168 hp, on par with the bigger 2.5, but a nice meaty 184 lbs-ft of torque right down low where its needed. The best part? it doesn’t need anything special to fit, to the rest of the car its just a more powerful version of the FB that’s already in there, its plug and play (more or less).

The downside is that its going to cost more to make a turbo engine that a NA one and that will bring the price up which is counter to what I said earlier, but I think if you offer it as an only choice and built it in volume the price increase would be minimal but it would pay big dividends in emissions, mpg and consumer sentiment.

People have been calling for a WRX XV for a while but lets be honest...that aint happening...however an XV with a 6 speed manual, and a turbo 1.6 might be just the right middle ground between the XV’s traditional buyers (read: people who used to buy outbacks before they became SUV’s) and Subaru’s more fun loving crowd.

Wow, that was more words than I thought I would need for this.

CalzoneGolem > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:12

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Number one complaint from non loyal XV buyers? Why is this burning so much oil?

HammerheadFistpunch > CalzoneGolem 03/01/2016 at 12:14

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Really? I thought that was more a VW thing. But seriously, I hadn’t heard that one, I know 2 people with XV’s and they usually just complain about power and mileage. That being said, one of the basic tenants of the FB series is reduced internal friction so maybe the super light weight oil combined with wimpy rings is leading to a lot of blowby.

CalzoneGolem > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:19

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My boss bought a first gen xv and he’d have to put in nearly a quart between changes. Besides that the car was perfect for him. He said it was his last Subaru and traded it on a Pilot.

Boxer_4 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:34

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The FB16E definitely has the right combination of performance and fuel economy for the job. The Levorg with this engine is rated around 27 city 37 highway, although I’m not sure what that equates to in real world data.

HammerheadFistpunch > Boxer_4 03/01/2016 at 12:37

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In the smaller XV and on the US cycle I suspect it would be pretty close to that. The added bonus would be that Subaru would be on par with some of the bigger players in the space with a 1.6T

Boxer_4 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:37

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This is what CalzoneGolem is talking about...

HammerheadFistpunch > Boxer_4 03/01/2016 at 12:39

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Thanks, that’s about how I figured it. Low internal friction techniques taken to the extreme results in poor sealing.

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:42

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Hoodscoops for all!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:42

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I would love to see subaru make a small turbo engine, it would help tremendously with efficiency and give you the grunt when you need it.

The FB motors have been notorious for burning oil, there is a class action law suit against subaru for this issue. I think this is endemic of modern super-efficient engines in general and the quest for efficiency. My 2013 outback uses straight 20 oil at about a quart every 4000 miles!

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:43

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But it’s just an Impreza with plastic body cladding and lifted suspension. What adventure machine? Every good thing the XV is credited for comes from just being an Impreza. A slightly worse Impreza. Worse handling, worse MPG, worse acceleration, worse styling, all for the name of...calling it a crossover? Retarded if you ask me.

HammerheadFistpunch > vicali 03/01/2016 at 12:44

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boo hoodscoops. I would go the indirect flow method used by the forester xt. Sorry, I don’t like hoodscoops anymore after owning one.

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 03/01/2016 at 12:45

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yeah, I was just reading Boxer-4’s post about that. I guess a turbo engine wouldn’t be much better in that regard but it would make up for it by being a turbo subaru.

Stapleface > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:47

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As a former XV owner, I echo your sentiments exactly. The two reasons I don’t have it anymore you mentioned. If I was getting decent performance I could deal with the blah gas mileage. But since gas mileage was middling, I decided I couldn’t deal with both and traded it in on a Civic. At least I get decent MPGs now.

This design is fantastic too. Looks like a baby Volvo to me. And yes, those wheels are too big. I liked the 17's that come on the current gen. No reason to go any bigger than that (unless there's bigger brakes). Subaru really should make this happen. IF they can keep it around 24k starting price, they'll continue the sales success of the first gen.

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:48

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lol, sometimes our na Foz has hoodscoop envy.. but then the Taco has enough fake hoodscoop to go around.

HammerheadFistpunch > Bytemite 03/01/2016 at 12:48

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Profit if you ask Subaru. I know its just a dressed up Impreza but its dressed up in all the right ways for so many consumers. I mean, the outback was just a dressed up legacy after all. The main thing is that its the most cost effective vehicle to buy and own that still has good ground clearance and AWD and was actually meant to take on adverse conditions. Its basically the outback of 2016 and Subaru knows it.

HammerheadFistpunch > vicali 03/01/2016 at 12:49

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The hoodscoop was superior to FMIC or indirect routed intercooling in 2 regards:

1. catching bugs

2. blocking vision.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 12:50

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With the warranty extended to 8yrs/100,000 miles and having a very good local dealer I am not too concerned. I wish I would have bought that 2011 4-runner instead....

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 03/01/2016 at 12:51

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I wouldn’t be either, i mean VW considers 1-2 quarts per change NORMAL on the 2.0 tsfi. As long as it has oil in the sump it will be fine.

Boxer_4 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 13:02

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Oil consumption issues have been plaguing several other manufacturers as well, for the same reasons of reducing friction. Subaru seems to have been getting the most attention for it.

So far, I haven’t known anyone personally who has experienced the issue (I only know of 2 people with FB25Bs within the age range), but the linked post sure is popular.

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 13:11

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Yeah I know when you clump up car buyers into the average consumer, we are dumb as bricks but to say the XV is the most cost effective vehicle to take on adverse conditions? The Impreza can do anything the XV can. 2 inches of lift and plastic body cladding isn’t helping it. It ruins the MPG by more than 5 mpg, raises weight and cog for worse acceleration and handling. The Impreza has AWD, it already has good amount of suspension travel with fully independent suspension all around. I think it’s honestly just the American mentality of “oh I might do (insert some scenario/activity you’ll never likely do) someday so I should buy this!”.

I might crash into an 18 wheeler one day, so I should buy this! (Will never crash into an 18 wheeler in their lifetime)

I might go into death valley to do some serious off-roading, so I should buy this! (Will maybe see a few gravel driveways)

I might be moving and hauling home improvement stuff around, so I should buy this! (rents)

I’ll have to tow my boat one day, so definitely I need to get this! (Will never buy a boat)

The list goes on and on...

HammerheadFistpunch > Bytemite 03/01/2016 at 13:15

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I wish I had data on people who take their vehicle off pavement because I would guess that XV owners are up there with any wrangler owner. don’t scoff at 2 inches (its actually 3 -5.7 impreza to 8.7 XV), 2 inches is a big deal, my land cruiser lift is only 2.5 inches.

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 13:17

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don’t scoff at 2 inches, 2 inches is a big deal

Is that what you tell her?

HammerheadFistpunch > Bytemite 03/01/2016 at 13:20

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uofime-2 > Bytemite 03/01/2016 at 13:26

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People like to buy crossovers. That is all that matters, yes they’re worse in most objective ways, but people prefer them.

uofime-2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 13:28

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It may be still new, but I just hit 10k miles with my FA20DIT and it hasn’t burned a drop of oil. I have friends with 35k and theirs don’t burn oil either so apparently Subaru solved their issue.

JEM > Bytemite 03/01/2016 at 16:51

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We often get 9-10' (yes that’s feet) of snow a year and I live 400' higher than the highway/roads I need to get anywhere.

I also play drums.

I need a lifted wagon. And I do go camping/off road a few times a year and it’s nice to know I can do so without taking a chin spoiler off.

DynamicWeight > HammerheadFistpunch 03/01/2016 at 19:57

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I bought the crosstrek and.......... I can not wait to get rid of it. It’s the first new car I bought with all my big boy money having lusted after subarus since I was 18 and fell in love with the WRX. I even got one with only 3 miles on it and a stick because I waited for a fresh delivery!

The thing is crazy capable. It puts 4WD drive trucks to shame in snow and sand. Great on dirt too. But the damn thing is SO uncomfortable on long trips. I absolutely cannot get the seat into a comfortable position and still be able to reach the clutch. Frankly, I think the power is fine EXCEPT for two places: the very low end and climbing. Almost every time in first gear it falls on it’s face unless I ride the clutch much more than I’d like to. When I make the climb up the mountain to Tahoe I have to keep it revved to 4000 in third gear to keep my speed at all.

Those are the worst things but yes, it also burns a quart of oil between changes and the gear selector feels barely a hair better than a mid 90s corolla shifter. I can’t believe I’d ever say this, but I should have gotten the auto.